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|  | Topic : Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area |  |
| | | Ashlander | | Set |  | | Reg. Date | : | 29/03/2021 | | Posts | : | 28 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 29 Mar 2021 - 06:13 Post title : Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area | | | I got a 2010 Thunderbird with the 1700 with an issue I haven't been able to figure out. It has an oscillating noise, or like a "wub wub wub" sound when moving, it does it at all speeds but less noticeable at higher speeds since it occurs at a higher frequency then and there is alot of other noise to drown it out. The sound and frequency is entirely based on road speed, so braking, throttle, clutch, load, etc has no effect on it. I originally could've swore it was coming from the back so I thought it was a wheel bearing, but after replacing them it still occurs.
My buddies and I had it on jacks last fall and ran the bike at about 30mph to align the wheel (it was pulling left) and to try to locate the sound, and it seems to be coming from the center of the bike, around the front pulley area (this also rules out anything with the front wheel since it wasn't moving). I've also noticed now, after getting it back out, that I can actually feel it (as a slight vibration when the sound occurs) in the foot pegs as it oscillates.
So at this point everything to do with either wheel is ruled out, and the rear is aligned nearly perfect (or at least it rides straight as an arrow now). Has anyone experienced a sound like this before, or have any thoughts on what the issue might be?
Here's a video of the sound, nevermind the flailing camera. It also seems to be more prominent on the right side (but not by much).
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| | | Leethal | | Zeus | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,407 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 29 Mar 2021 - 06:38 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Ashlander) | | | Have the bearings in the pulley hub been checked?
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it 
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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| | | Ashlander | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 29/03/2021 | | Posts | : | 28 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 29 Mar 2021 - 06:47 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Leethal) | | | The front pulley? I replaced the one in the rear pulley with the wheel bearings. Would there be one in the front as well? I'm primarily a car guy (I have 2 Mustangs), so I'm not quite as familiar with how bike drivetrains are setup.
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| | | Bender | | Chaac | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 26/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 659 | | Location | : | Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia |
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| | Posted : 29 Mar 2021 - 09:32 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Ashlander) | | | Have you checked your rear brake pads are seated properly
| BENDER Four wheels move the body. Two wheels move the soul.
Thunderbird 1600, Foran exhaust,cat eliminator,Twin T Bars, K and N filter, Led Headlight, Rivco driving Lights, Viking Bags,quick release sissy Bar,.Joker oil pressure Gauge met-cruise seat Dyno Tune + more
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| | | Slcharger | | Jupiter | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 18/02/2016 | | Posts | : | 1,661 | | Location | : | Denmark |
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| | Posted : 29 Mar 2021 - 15:24 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Ashlander) | | | Listening to the video, I would not drive the bike before the source of the sound is found. It sounds as if something is chewing up, like a bearing.
Since it is speed related, I agree with Leethal that it could the front pulley bearing, and if not, most likely bearings on the output shaft, inside the gearbox.
| Big Bird, Bordeaux with " Celtic theme " Airbrush, 2010, 1700CC, ABS, 65.000 km. Lowered with Nitros rear shocks, Linear front springs, Burchard forward footrest kit, Kuryakyn ISO grips, LOTS of chrome, SLcharger REV2+ tune, Modified Cee Baileys windshield, Oil pressure gauge, Air box elimination kit, Portet cylinderhead, Intake cam advanved 8 degree, Exhaust cam retarded 2 degree, 10.5 C/R, Knock sensor, Machined flywheel, DNA Chrome Spoke wheels, 18x8.5"- AVON AV72- 240/40/18, 21x3.5"- AVON AV71- 120/70/21, Corbin seat with backrest, 20W fork oil. Hiflo HF303RC oil filter, Penrite Racing 20-20W60 engine oil, Adjurl lights.
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| | | MotorMac | | Jupiter | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 29/08/2010 | | Posts | : | 1,790 | | Location | : | Nor Cal, United States |
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| | Posted : 29 Mar 2021 - 16:56 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Ashlander) | | | Kudos on recording that - I'm with Bender, rear brake dragging.
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| | | Ashlander | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 29/03/2021 | | Posts | : | 28 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 29 Mar 2021 - 18:17 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Slcharger) | | | Bender wrote:
Have you checked your rear brake pads are seated properly |
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MotorMac wrote:
Kudos on recording that - I'm with Bender, rear brake dragging. |
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I don't think it's the brake. I would expect the sound to disappear, or at least change, when the rear brake is applied in that case, but it has no effect (and rear brake bites hard so it is working).
Slcharger wrote:
Listening to the video, I would not drive the bike before the source of the sound is found. It sounds as if something is chewing up, like a bearing.
Since it is speed related, I agree with Leethal that it could the front pulley bearing, and if not, most likely bearings on the output shaft, inside the gearbox.
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I imagine the pulley bearing probably isn't too big of a deal to do, but would about the output shaft bearing? Would that be doable on the bike, or does the engine/trans need to be removed?
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| | | Linkdog | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 10/02/2011 | | Posts | : | 2,923 | | Location | : | Groveland, FL., United States |
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| | Posted : 29 Mar 2021 - 21:25 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Ashlander) | | | you can check the rear brake by cracking the bleeder and push the pads away from the disc, do not touch the rear brake and see if it changes ( I doubt it ) . Also you can drain your oil and look for shavings, particles in the oil. The easiest thing to do is pull the chrome pulley cover and see if any thing is caught up in there, I'm with SLcharger something is getting messed up and the more it's driven the more that can happen to other things.
| Never drink from a cow with one udder! 2010 1600 Blue&White ( of course ) Long TORS and HP filter.
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| | | Ashlander | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 29/03/2021 | | Posts | : | 28 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 29 Mar 2021 - 21:52 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Linkdog) | | | Linkdog wrote:
you can check the rear brake by cracking the bleeder and push the pads away from the disc, do not touch the rear brake and see if it changes ( I doubt it ) . Also you can drain your oil and look for shavings, particles in the oil. The easiest thing to do is pull the chrome pulley cover and see if any thing is caught up in there, I'm with SLcharger something is getting messed up and the more it's driven the more that can happen to other things. |
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Nah I just took it to my buddies and set it back up on jackstands to have a look again. Looks like there's some play in the front pulley, so I think it is probably one of the bearings mentioned. I'm assuming there should be no play in the front pulley at all.
| | Post edited by Ashlander on 30 Mar 2021 - 04:22 |
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| | | Leethal | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,407 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 29 Mar 2021 - 22:50 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Ashlander) | | |
Ashlander wrote:
The front pulley? I replaced the one in the rear pulley with the wheel bearings. Would there be one in the front as well? I'm primarily a car guy (I have 2 Mustangs), so I'm not quite as familiar with how bike drivetrains are setup. |
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There are two bearings in the rear pulley drive flange, a needle roller and a roller, did you do both? You only mention "one".
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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| | | Ashlander | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 29/03/2021 | | Posts | : | 28 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 30 Mar 2021 - 01:17 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Leethal) | | |
Leethal wrote:
Ashlander wrote:
The front pulley? I replaced the one in the rear pulley with the wheel bearings. Would there be one in the front as well? I'm primarily a car guy (I have 2 Mustangs), so I'm not quite as familiar with how bike drivetrains are setup. |
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There are two bearings in the rear pulley drive flange, a needle roller and a roller, did you do both? You only mention "one". |
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I only did the ball bearing, and the two smaller ones in the wheel. There weren't any other bearings that show up in any of the diagrams I saw or any parts searches. But now that you mention I think I did notice a needle bearing inside the hub. But the wheel rotated nicely on the axle so I'm not too worried about that.
The front pulley has about a 1mm of play side to side though, so I'm leaning towards the front bearing, unless that's within an acceptable tolerance.
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| | | Leethal | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,407 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 30 Mar 2021 - 06:56 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Ashlander) | | | That needle roller is a known fail on early Tbirds, it was modified from the 2011 year model. You can buy the updated hub complete with bearings for reasonable money. The wheel may spin nicely as there is no load on the pulley, it's worth checking properly.
When you say the front one has 1mm of play, is that in and out or can you rock it top to bottom?
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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| | | Slcharger | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 18/02/2016 | | Posts | : | 1,661 | | Location | : | Denmark |
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| | Posted : 30 Mar 2021 - 07:03 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Leethal) | | | In case you don't have it here is the link to download the Service Manual.
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| Big Bird, Bordeaux with " Celtic theme " Airbrush, 2010, 1700CC, ABS, 65.000 km. Lowered with Nitros rear shocks, Linear front springs, Burchard forward footrest kit, Kuryakyn ISO grips, LOTS of chrome, SLcharger REV2+ tune, Modified Cee Baileys windshield, Oil pressure gauge, Air box elimination kit, Portet cylinderhead, Intake cam advanved 8 degree, Exhaust cam retarded 2 degree, 10.5 C/R, Knock sensor, Machined flywheel, DNA Chrome Spoke wheels, 18x8.5"- AVON AV72- 240/40/18, 21x3.5"- AVON AV71- 120/70/21, Corbin seat with backrest, 20W fork oil. Hiflo HF303RC oil filter, Penrite Racing 20-20W60 engine oil, Adjurl lights.
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| | | Ashlander | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 29/03/2021 | | Posts | : | 28 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 30 Mar 2021 - 07:32 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Leethal) | | | Leethal wrote:
That needle roller is a known fail on early Tbirds, it was modified from the 2011 year model. You can buy the updated hub complete with bearings for reasonable money. The wheel may spin nicely as there is no load on the pulley, it's worth checking properly.
When you say the front one has 1mm of play, is that in and out or can you rock it top to bottom?
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Top to bottom. We had the belt loosened off the pulley, so we were actually moving it front to back, but it's basically the same thing.
Slcharger wrote:
In case you don't have it here is the link to download the Service Manual.
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That's awesome, thanks. This will definitely come in handy.
| | Post edited by Ashlander on 30 Mar 2021 - 07:34 |
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| | | Leethal | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,407 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 30 Mar 2021 - 09:35 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Ashlander) | | | I have never checked mine, but I would think that it should have no play front to back, maybe in and out though.
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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| | | rayglo | | Jupiter | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 27/10/2012 | | Posts | : | 1,746 | | Location | : | east brunswick, nj, United States |
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| | Posted : 30 Mar 2021 - 14:11 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Leethal) | | | Belt being too tight? I dont recall this problem at all? Good point about pulley being under load.
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| | | Linkdog | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 10/02/2011 | | Posts | : | 2,923 | | Location | : | Groveland, FL., United States |
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| | Posted : 30 Mar 2021 - 16:03 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: rayglo) | | | If you have radial play at the pulley you would never control the belt. Also Matt 1600 made a ball bearing conversion for the roller bearing.
| Never drink from a cow with one udder! 2010 1600 Blue&White ( of course ) Long TORS and HP filter.
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| | | MotorMac | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 29/08/2010 | | Posts | : | 1,790 | | Location | : | Nor Cal, United States |
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| | Posted : 30 Mar 2021 - 16:31 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Linkdog) | | | Here is a thread regarding revised rear hub assembly:
Link
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| | | Ashlander | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 29/03/2021 | | Posts | : | 28 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 30 Mar 2021 - 17:39 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Linkdog) | | | Leethal wrote:
I have never checked mine, but I would think that it should have no play front to back, maybe in and out though.
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That's what I was thinking. It had a slight bit of in/out play as well, but I figured that was probably normal. I dont think I should be able to jiggle it side to side though lol
Linkdog wrote:
If you have radial play at the pulley you would never control the belt. Also Matt 1600 made a ball bearing conversion for the roller bearing. |
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What do you mean by control the belt? Like control where it rides on the pulleys? Mine always seems to work its way up against the outer lip of the front, and along the outer rim of the rear pulley.
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| | | Linkdog | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 10/02/2011 | | Posts | : | 2,923 | | Location | : | Groveland, FL., United States |
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| | Posted : 30 Mar 2021 - 21:50 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Ashlander) | | | That's correct, think of it like a belt sander if the pulley moves so does the belt. BTW my belt when adjusted to within .001" from side to side runs towards the inner lip of the rear pulley and it always has , but each bike is different with the alignment of the engine and the swingarm.
| Never drink from a cow with one udder! 2010 1600 Blue&White ( of course ) Long TORS and HP filter.
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| | | Leethal | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,407 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 30 Mar 2021 - 22:15 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: rayglo) | | |
rayglo wrote:
Belt being too tight? I dont recall this problem at all? Good point about pulley being under load. |
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Possibly mate, I have never heard of any internal bearing issues with these engines, I suspect the problem is elsewhere, if it is the front pulley assembly I would love to know what caused it.
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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| | | Ashlander | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 29/03/2021 | | Posts | : | 28 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 31 Mar 2021 - 01:37 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Linkdog) | | |
Linkdog wrote:
That's correct, think of it like a belt sander if the pulley moves so does the belt. BTW my belt when adjusted to within .001" from side to side runs towards the inner lip of the rear pulley and it always has , but each bike is different with the alignment of the engine and the swingarm. |
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Yeah, mine just rides against the outer lip of both pulleys with the wheel adjusted anywhere near in-line. When we were adjusting it last fall I could get it in the middle, but it'd be pretty far out of alignment at that point.
I just took the pulley off today to get a better look at the play and spin it free of the belt. Spinning it by hand produces a slightly frictiony grumble, but doesn't quite sound like the oscillating sound when riding. Started the bike up and ran it in first gear with the belt free, and it didn't make the sound. I'm not sure that completely cancels out the possibility of the pulley bearing though, since it didn't have the belt tension applied.
Might see if I can figure something out to test the rear wheel without the belt to see if it's that needle bearing making the sound, but that'd probably have to wait till this weekend.
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| | | rayglo | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 27/10/2012 | | Posts | : | 1,746 | | Location | : | east brunswick, nj, United States |
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| | Posted : 31 Mar 2021 - 09:35 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Ashlander) | | | If it's about time to change the wheel bearing then you can eliminate that possible cause. Then you can test the front pulley with the belt on and rule out the bearing if quiet. I have had many different sounds come from my misaligned or tight belt. It's like a ghost of a noise. Different adjustments make different noises with my bike.
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| | | Ashlander | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 29/03/2021 | | Posts | : | 28 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 31 Mar 2021 - 18:08 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: rayglo) | | | rayglo wrote:
If it's about time to change the wheel bearing then you can eliminate that possible cause. Then you can test the front pulley with the belt on and rule out the bearing if quiet. I have had many different sounds come from my misaligned or tight belt. It's like a ghost of a noise. Different adjustments make different noises with my bike. |
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I already did the wheel bearings except the needle bearing inside the pulley hub. It wasn't time for them or anything, I just thought they were the problem at first. The bearings all seemed fine, so I pretty much knew they weren't the issue as soon as I took them out, but I replaced them anyway since I had the new ones ready. This definitely isn't the belt alignment/tension. Imo it's gotta be either the needle bearing or the front pulley bearing, unless some new information presents itself.
| | Post edited by Ashlander on 31 Mar 2021 - 18:09 |
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| | | Ashlander | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 29/03/2021 | | Posts | : | 28 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 31 Mar 2021 - 20:48 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area | | | Well if my logic serves me right, I think it's safe to say it's probably the front pulley bearing.
I just pulled all the covers off, and set it up so I could easily remove the pulley, then limped it up a hill around the corner from us, removed the pulley, and coasted it back down the hill. I was thinking if it still made the sound, it was the needle bearing, and if not, it's the front pulley bearing. No sound, seems to be the front pulley bearing.
Any thoughts on this? According to the diagrams, that bearing looks like it's right behind the outside plate. Is it easily removable, or do I need to pull the whole output shaft out to get it off?
| | Post edited by Ashlander on 31 Mar 2021 - 21:05 |
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| | | rayglo | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 27/10/2012 | | Posts | : | 1,746 | | Location | : | east brunswick, nj, United States |
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| | Posted : 31 Mar 2021 - 22:12 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Ashlander) | | | I would think if it is the pulley bearing it would have some noticable play in it. There is no load on the pulley to distort the bearings into it's noise. Maybe try the old stethoscope practice.
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| | | Leethal | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,407 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 31 Mar 2021 - 22:43 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Ashlander) | | |
Ashlander wrote:
Well if my logic serves me right, I think it's safe to say it's probably the front pulley bearing.
I just pulled all the covers off, and set it up so I could easily remove the pulley, then limped it up a hill around the corner from us, removed the pulley, and coasted it back down the hill. I was thinking if it still made the sound, it was the needle bearing, and if not, it's the front pulley bearing. No sound, seems to be the front pulley bearing.
Any thoughts on this? According to the diagrams, that bearing looks like it's right behind the outside plate. Is it easily removable, or do I need to pull the whole output shaft out to get it off? |
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Without the belt there is no load on the belt pulley so the wheel will run quiet on the rim bearings. Not sure on the front pulley but I'm sure the service manual will explain.
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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| | | Ashlander | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 29/03/2021 | | Posts | : | 28 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 31 Mar 2021 - 22:50 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: rayglo) | | |
rayglo wrote:
I would think if it is the pulley bearing it would have some noticable play in it. There is no load on the pulley to distort the bearings into it's noise. Maybe try the old stethoscope practice. |
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It did have some play in it, about 1mm side to side. We actually did the stethoscope thing with a solid metal screwdriver in the fall, and it sounded like it was loudest at the crankcase. Mostly according to my buddies since I've never been good at that.
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| | | rayglo | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 27/10/2012 | | Posts | : | 1,746 | | Location | : | east brunswick, nj, United States |
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| | Posted : 01 Apr 2021 - 05:09 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: Ashlander) | | | Yes I think Linkdog ment a stable spot on the front pulley. 1mm each side, I don't know but is that excessive play? Don't know about everyone but I had noises from the belt that were ungodly. If there was a concrete wall the sound would bounce back to my ears otherwise I might not hear it. I remember a few members learned that it wasn't bearings but the belt. I hope this would be your problem.
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| | | Ashlander | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 29/03/2021 | | Posts | : | 28 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 01 Apr 2021 - 05:46 Post title : Re: Oscillating Scraping Noise Coming From Front Pulley Area (Re: rayglo) | | | rayglo wrote:
Yes I think Linkdog ment a stable spot on the front pulley. 1mm each side, I don't know but is that excessive play? Don't know about everyone but I had noises from the belt that were ungodly. If there was a concrete wall the sound would bounce back to my ears otherwise I might not hear it. I remember a few members learned that it wasn't bearings but the belt. I hope this would be your problem. |
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I honestly don't know if 1mm play is excessive or not, I wouldn't be surprised either way. This noise is crazy, it wasn't super noticeable at first, but must've gradually gotten louder as I was riding last year (i put 4000 miles on it).
Whoever said that if it turns out to be the front pulley bearing, they'd be curious to know what caused it, 65k miles outta do it lol
| | Post edited by Ashlander on 01 Apr 2021 - 05:47 |
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